@d1re_w0lf hi, this is not true, people can't delete other people's messages

what they can do is modify group name/avatar and add/remove members because #deltachat is for private chatting with friends and family were everyone is trusted and has the same rights, Delta Chat doesn't have public groups with admins (channels with admin similar to telegram's are coming tho)

@_elena

Good morning Fedi friends!

Time to try out something new 👀

#DeltaChat

Alt...

a screenshot of my desktop showing a gradient background and a window that says "welcome to Delta Chat - secure decentralized chat - create new profile - I already have a profile"

@Laberpferd hey you seem to be #German, if you want to try out a small anonymous social network for German-speakers inside #deltachat:

https://i.delta.chat/#45AC0444EB183B1987225D0D4D688ECC7AE42ECD&a=social%2Dde%40arcanechat.me&n=Bildpunkt%20Sozial&i=fSHNaxy4rMYwKaMsvZvDqn7J&s=B3ZpH_TS3tIMwTY7wPiNXJOg

@tmw keep an eye on #DeltaChat, it is super user friendly and easy to onboard family and video calls are coming! there is already prototypes version with call feature

@cryptgoat

@Jonas #DeltaChat, it has super easy onboarding, easier than Signal: no phone number, no SMS codes, no solving CAPTCHAs just set a name and start chatting

it also has super nice multi-account and multi-device support, unlike Signal

@fdroidorg and also #DeltaChat 😎

@jaxter take a look at #DeltaChat for decentralized private comms, it is super easy to setup, unlike #Signal it doesn't require phone number or any private data for registration, no CAPTCHA, no SMS code, just set a name and avatar and start chatting

it also has super nice multi-device and multi-profile support, unlike Signal

@gharbeia I also recommend #DeltaChat instead of #matrix for private communications with friends and family, it is much more user-friendly and painless to configure (literally, just set a name and avatar) and has great multi-profile and multi-device support

but if you need it for public rooms, then you have to stick with matrix or #xmpp

@pedrosanta

@nixCraft #DeltaChat is right there, folks

There is no single central #Signal server. Signal uses #AWS cloud, plus Google Cloud, Microsoft Cloud and Cloudflare, all under US legislation. If any of these clouds goes down or becomes otherwise problematic, chatting degrades or fails.

With #deltachat you can choose #chatmail relays ( https://chatmail.at/relays ) which distributes the risk across a wider network. We are currently working on the multi-transport feature to finally remove any central point of chat failure https://chaos.social/@delta/115362144863345662

@jwildeboer if you haven't yet, I recommend you to look into #DeltaChat for private communications

@fink yeah there are plans to support multiple servers/addresses with the same profile I am really looking forward to that,

in the meantime, you can configure several accounts in #DeltaChat and then use a different chatmail provider in each one, so if one fails you can fallback to another, but yeah that will be much more convenient in the future without needing a different profile for each server

@jeroen @splitbrain @delta

@_elena I don't think #matrix is good for family and friends, I recommend #DeltaChat for that use case, it is much more user-friendly and simple for family and friends, registration is painless, just set a name and avatar, no private information needed, no passwords, no captcha, no SMS codes, etc.

and it has good multi-device multi-profile support

@roughnecks even if you remove server costs:
"Personnel costs are 19 million dollars per year"

besides, the point of my previous post was that all that millions would have gone better to some #xmpp effort or #DeltaChat

I don't get your bad vibes, I will not further reply to you, have a nice weekend

@debacle @d1 @yourautisticlife

@debacle it really depress me to see people donating and throwing millions of dollars to a centralized service (with a good chunk of that money going to Amazon, Google, Microsoft, etc. just to pay in expensive Signal servers infrastructure)

if only that money would have been invested into improving a mainstream multiplatform #XMPP client solution, or into #DeltaChat 😮‍💨 the world is so unfair, only the good die young 🥲

@d1 @yourautisticlife

Help us to test the upcoming Calling 📞 feature in #DeltaChat

https://support.delta.chat/t/help-testing-upcoming-delta-chat-release-with-calls/4220

It replaces the external video chat links with an integrated calling solution like you know from other Messengers.

@debacle I was really disappointed by #signal recently, I don't really use it, only for testing, was trying to add it to a second device and it was not possible at all without losing it in my main device, what is worse, even then transferring from one device to the other failed so ended up having to start from scratch in the second device losing all chats etc 🤦‍♂️ it made me realize how much luxury I enjoy with #DeltaChat 's multi-device and multi-profile support

@d1 @yourautisticlife

@d1 yeah, #DeltaChat can't be used for public groups, all groups are private for ex. family and friends or trusted people, hence everyone can administrate the group, which is quite practical for that scenario, in the future there could be some kind of group with administrator/owner in DeltaChat, but as you said, TODAY a DC group can't replace a Signal one if it is for public interactions with strangers

@yourautisticlife

@yourautisticlife You're correct, however #deltachat groups are less stable and coherently manageable than Signal Groups, be warned. Deltachat groups, _technically speaking_, have this more ragtag, anarchy feel to them - no clean and totally bug-free management of them (for whomever believes themselves to be the Admin of them).

Group management is a little frayed and threadbare in Deltachat (also #XMPP - *should you insist on #OMEMO encryption*). #Signal, despite people's nitpicks about it, is a tough choice to beat for *today's*, choices, IMHO. Repeat, _today_.

Others will sing the praises of what might come to be tomorrow (or next week, month, year, or who knows if ever?), but I say take your best choice for *today*, and be grateful you have even that much.

You're going to hear some other passionate views about these technologies! Flame shields up!

#OpenSource #nokings

@Tourma sure thing! it is the same! the "add second device" doesn't do anything special, each #DeltaChat device is autonomous! and synchronizes as usual independently of a "main" device, so if your "main" device dies it doesn't matter, all your devices are "main devices"! that means every device works as a full backup and you will never lose your profile and chats!

@Adam @kkarhan @monocles fun fact: you can use the same #webxdc in-chat-apps in #monocles and #deltachat - thanks to open protocols, standards and communication

@LadyNeuroFunk #DeltaChat all the way 🤓

Base tech resilience comes from tools that can be used offline. #deltachat apps are offline-first in that you can create chats, send messages, look at messages/media and trigger establishung contact via qr code scans. And you can use #webxdc apps (with checklist, calendars, editors, shopping lists etc) because they not only don't require Internet but are barred from accessing it, providing privacy that doesn't require #gdpr or consent or login.

#deltachat has reliable and audited end-to-end encryption but reliable message delivery is equally crucial in times of shutdowns and increasing Internet fragmentation. #chatmail relays are more reliable and faster than classic email servers but they may still fail, leaving users stranded. The recent rollout of V2 releases not only hardened end-to-end encryption but aims for chat profiles to use multiple relays in the future, removing a common point of failure in decentralized private messaging.

@alxlg #WhatsApp is way more popular than #Telegram and they have #e2ee, so that is a huge empty claim, and about your other post, with my post I didn't imply that Telegram is the reason people don't use #DeltaChat etc. I just pointed to the irony of the post.

I agree it is hard to reach the masses without compromises, but let's be honest, if #Meta would put DeltaChat or #xmpp into people like they did with WA, people would use it all the same, it doesn't really matter much

@IkkleGemzUniverse if you have #DeltaChat you can participate anonymously in the #PixelSocial network:

https://i.delta.chat/#C753A22A447DE8CA18653B9C7668BC822C0561CA&a=pixsocial%40arcanechat.me&n=PixelSocial&i=sz7HYOnPmjG1WWOclOFlGLFv&s=XJFfgZRHwvTVAvBAQKJxFL2F

also check https://deltachat-bot.github.io/public-bots for a list of public bots you can try out

@cavyherd that is why #DeltaChat is a better alternative, it requires literally nothing, just set a name and avatar and start chatting, also it has multi-profile support so I have 1 profile for family and friends and another for work and more public interactions,

also the multi-device support is great and I can use different devices for the same accounts, if one device dies I don't lose any message or chat

@paregorios

@josep528 Depends what you're using it for, how and with who... but some alternatives include #XMPP, Matrix, SimpleX, Zulip, Mattermost, #DeltaChat (for small trusted groups), #Briar, Cwtch, Session, Quiet, Jami, Jitsi Meet and Mumble.

There's also Signal but it requires a phone number.

You can have a main group chats app, and couple of tested backup ones.

New #German speaking instance of #PixelSocial: the pixelated #anonymous #socialNetwork, inside #DeltaChat, to join:

https://i.delta.chat/#45AC0444EB183B1987225D0D4D688ECC7AE42ECD&a=social%2Dde%40arcanechat.me&n=Bildpunkt%20Sozial&i=fSHNaxy4rMYwKaMsvZvDqn7J&s=B3ZpH_TS3tIMwTY7wPiNXJOg

Herzlich willkommen!

DeltaChat for the win

Ok, maybe not for the win per se, but I am switching over to DeltaChat as I really only have two people I share with.

While its not perfect, it works well enough for me, I just send the occasional message, link or image to others or m'self, and it does that fine. This time around, I've got the sticker thing sorta fixed, Android doesn't offer a sticker option, something I need to see if'n I can figure a work around for, but I've got it working well on my desktop. I've also tried the Mastodon bridge, and that works fine, but having your home timeline show up as chat messages get old fast, notifications are a little bit better, but still, bad idea. There is a Telegram bridge, but that looks like it only works to bridge Telegram Groups to DeltaChat, so that's not all that great.

So what is DeltaChat? Its an email based encrypted messenger. You can use an existing email address, though I don't recommend that, or get one from DeltaChat or a couple other servers. Clients exist for Linux, MacOS, iOS, Android... And I suppose there's one for Windows too.

I guess if'n anyone wants to try it, or has questions, I can try to answer them, just shout at me here.

#deltachat #messenger

I've browsed through 9 pages of users comments to an article about #chatcontrol and not a single person mentioned #deltachat. We need to do something about this!

While classic cleartext email providers, also Thunderbird with its Thundermail efforts, are aiming to be a more trustworthy alternative to Gmail/calendar/drive etc ...

#deltachat and #chatmail efforts go all-in on end-to-end encryption and metadata minimization, with decentralized transport relays playing much lesser roles than #Signal's Amazon/Microsoft/Google servers. At the same time, #webxdc apps provide unprecedented extensibility, eg checkout the great TOTP app https://webxdc.org/apps/#rtn-totp

@matiu_bidule Googles planned restrictions on users abilities to install software is horrible. But it doesn't have much to do with the #deltachat app distribution, as the gmbh is already registered across many stores. We would like to see non-android/non-apple mobile efforts to florish. But let's not mix it too much with the issue of #chatcontrol even if it's true that enforcing chatcontrol would likely imply enforcing app distribution via google/apple eventually, and canceling e2ee apps.

While #chatcontrol poses an existential threat to the Freiburg merlinux GmbH and distributing #deltachat apps from within the EU to all stores worldwide, it would resist any chatcontrol legislation up to the German constitutional and EuGH courts.

If the EU based company would need to fold in a few years, there would likely be forks distributed outside the EU that will *seamlessly* continue to function. Our architecture and FOSS licensing makes sure of it. See also https://chaos.social/@delta/113417740762852318

@ivantodorov yeah, #DeltaChat is more user-friendly, but it doesn't have ringing calls (yet!) but we are working on them right now!

@kariboka

@ivantodorov while there is an ongoing effort to dockerize #chatmail relays, a proxmox version of https://github.com/chatmail/relay/ would be very useful as well. Those relay nodes operate as a cheap chat-optimized federated email server, usable by any #deltachat app

We'd like to remind everyone that a self-hosted #chatmail relay is best shared in some wider than family circles. In crisis situations everbody does better when helping others.

A typical 1gb RAM chatmail relay VPS for 5-10 eur per month supports 50k+ daily users.

chatmail VPSes are stateless. You can wipe all disk state, reinstall and chatting will resume. Conversely, #deltachat does not keep or depend on any server state .Operators under pressure do not need to feel bad to hand over data.

La idea de pasarse a XMPP ya como que me remata, porque todo el trabajo de pasar a tu entorno recae en el que lidera la propuesta y para eso hay que tener entusiasmo y fuerza.

Tuve una época en la que estuve usando #deltachat con el correo electrónico y si hay que hacer esfuerzos en promocionar sistemas (en mi opinión) es en el correo electrónico. Mecanismo que empezamos a perder porque todo el mundo tiene uno, todo el mundo lo necesita, pero nadie quiere pelear por el suyo. Igual que con el fediverso.

1 cent per five years .... is the current marginal hosting cost for a #chatmail address, with which #deltachat apps facilitate world-wide private messaging including interactive #webxdc apps that run end-to-end encrypted in any chat group.

<1 Million EUR per year is the estimated marginal hosting costs for 350 Million EU citizens. Such scaling requires, however, research and development, including careful UX and #cryptography work. Related writing from @gordon

https://newsletter.squishy.computer/p/cryptography-scales-trust

Alt...

screenshot of key excerpt from the referenced post: "When the network is built on cryptographic protocols, we don’t have to trust anything in-between. We don’t have to trust the computers, the wires, the institutions, beliefs, or kinship of the network participants. We can trust the math. All we have to do is verify the message with cryptography. This is a powerful primitive for scaling trust, because it means everyone on the network can cooperate together, even if they don’t trust each-other. The costs to producing high-trust results are greatly reduced, and we can spend our coordination efforts on building larger, more fine-grained, more complex networks of cooperation."

Public service announcement:

1. If you want to link your #Fediverse profile to a chat account please consider just saying "DM me for #deltachat invite link" and NOT PUBLISH it to "all".

2. If you do publish invite links to groups and so on, please consider doing it with a dedicated delta chat profile that is not your private profile. Multi-Profile for the win.

3. We want to evolve the #securejoin invite link UX to better prevent unsafe practises. Involves tons of considerations. 💜

With our #deltachat #chatmail and #webxdc efforts we put all intelligence on the end devices, and architecutally separate it from a transport layer that routes safely and fast but knows nothing.

There are a dozen or more #chatmail servers across many jurisdictions, all safely interopable with each other and classic servers.

Turned out we can dumb down email servers by relying on cryptography instead of IP reputation and ai/spam filtering. And have 200ms delivery times. We are not done :)

Did you know that #deltachat does not need and does not use key servers? Most other messengers (wa/signal/matrix/threema/...) actually operate or incorporate a cryptographic key server, managing the cryptographic identities of all users. Delta Chat uses decentralized protocols for key management avoiding a central storage of identities. The SecureJoin protocol is the key (sic!) innovation and was independently analyzed by ETH Zürich researchers earlier this year .... https://delta.chat/en/2024-03-25-crypto-analysis-securejoin

How many people do you know that have lost their messaging history on Whatsapp or Signal, photos etc during mobile phone transitions or breakage or through other shenenigans?

With #deltachat you can:

- export "everything" to a file and import it on any of the many different devices

- or just setup a second device through a QR code scan -- which was happily discovered here after an accidental factory reset https://libranet.de/display/0b6b25a8-2066-0695-ca24-081964494389