Search results for tag #deltachat
Comparing #XMPP against #email protocols is too limited. What sets #deltachat apart is *vertical integration* and being driven by UI/UX considerations. Cross-platform Apps and Bots use the Rust core library which connects with #chatmail relays and classic email servers based on a higher level API -- abstracting over SMTP, MIME, #OpenPGP etc. See https://chatmail.at
#webxdc apps in turn use an even higher level stable API abstracting over email/xmpp/... see https://webxdc.org/docs/
Hi @delta 👋
I am making updates to https://delightful.coding.social/delightful_activitypub_development and bumped into this interesting #SMTP to #ActivityPub proof of concept. Just a heads-up to make you aware, in case it is interesting for #DeltaChat in some way or other.
Considering that both #XMPP and #Matrix re-invented #decentralized communication while #email was already there, makes #deltachat more interesting.
The fact that DC didn't invent a new protocol for #InstantMessaging and just used the protocol which was already there, and also that how far has it gone, is mind blowing.
At first when I was chatting with @treefit, I already was developing a Matrix client(#chooj) for #KaiOS and it was the only decentralized IM which I was using and investing resources into. I was skeptical but then I thought it would be a good idea to invest into DeltaChat, as well as Matrix. His argument, of course, wasn't good. He was arguing that we need multiple options in the case one of decentralized IMs fail. However this convinced me to give DC a try.
But now, I see that DC has very unique advantages no other messenger has. Their moto is "playing the long term" game. Unlike Matrix which suddenly exploded, DC moves very slowly. As an advantage, DC is much more consistent, hassle free, has less bugs(in my experience) and has better UI/UX than many Matrix clients. But it has got several disadvantages. Matrix has tons more features which DC hasn't got or has added them just recently such as editing messages and reactions. And it is not yet suitable for public groups, like the ones we've got in the Matrix network.
Overall, if you want secure chat with friends or family or other people you trust, DeltaChat is a very good option and the experience is very good. And I haven't seen something like #webxdc in any other IM. However if you want something like #Discord guilds for a community, Matrix is the way to go.
BTW, DC currently lacks funding, thanks to what #Trump did with #OpenTechnologyFund(#OTF). If you can help in anyway, financial or otherwise, it will be extra valuable at this point.
Edit:
BTW, here are websites of webxdc and DC:
https://delta.chat
https://webxdc.org/
Edit2: Make sure to check WebXDC, apps shared in #P2P deltachat groups or DMs.
#IM #FOSS #Messenger #MessagingApp #opensource #opensourceIM #freesoftware
The point is that DeltaChat didn't invent a new protocol, start something from scratch and write the software for it from the first line. As there is a saying:
Good programmers write programs from scratch. Great programmers find an already existing program and use it as a base.
#DeltaChat didn't invent #Email, #PGP, #autocrypt or new technology for #webxdc. Even WebXDC's real time channels don't use a technology invented by DC.
our friends over at @rpgp just published a monster milestone, humbly tagged 0.16 😍 with
- streaming decryption and encryption
- post-quantum-cryptography
- API streamlining.
#rPGP is a full Rust implementation of #openpgp which counts among the fastest and most compliant implementations today, and includes security audits. Note: #deltachat uses a restricted subset of OpenPGP, and follows best practices (eg using the same ed25519 keys implementation as #signal) https://github.com/rpgp/rpgp/
Mensajería instantánea
De una conversación tecnológica:¿Da WhatsApp (WA) información a la policía?
El entendimiento general es que WA no da contenido de comunicaciones a la policía.
Da metadatos de comunicaciones a la policía, y los metadatos que da son sustanciales, ya que cosas como el nombre del grupo, descripción e icono son considerados «metadatos» por WA (no por Signal), e incluso contenidos de su agenda (y las agendas de sus contactos) se consideran metadatos.
Les defensoras de Signal señalarán que Signal no considera «metadatos» cosas como el nombre de grupo, la descripción o el contenido de la agenda.
La gente acostumbrada a servicios decentes como los de riseup, autistici/inventati, nadir, sinodminio, disroot o aktivix, siempre preferirán protocolos descentralizados donde cualquiera puede configurar su propio servidor federado, como delta.chat o xmpp; son los mejores.
Idealmente hospedados por colectivos decentes.
https://anatemas.noblogs.org/mensajeria-instantanea/
#General #BigTech #cifrado #deltachat #deltachat #GrandesTecnologicas #GrandesTenologicasNo #MensajeriaInstantanea #NoBigTech #privacidad #signal #Tech #tecnologia #WhatsApp #xmpp
@tanja yes, there is a pre-discussed concept for sealed sender maybe along with sealed recipients while we are at it. Base idea is to use fixed-format alias chatmail addresses for recipients and allow unauthenticated sending from noreply@chatmailserver to such fixed-format alias addresses (which #deltachat devices learn about through chatting).
@delta thank you so much for responding :3
Are there any plans for something like sealed-sender?
I imagine that'd be rather difficult with existing mail standards.
At least for me, Signals sealed-sender has never failed me yet (apart from the first message in new conversations), at least the sealed-sender icon appears in every message I've sent in the info screen.
(How) could this be implemented in #deltachat ?
When I send a message using @delta, can people in control of the chat server see who sent it?
Can people in control of the chat server know what group I'm sending to, if it's a group chat?
As far as I'm aware, @signalapp prevents at least the first one, and has mitigations for correlation attacks (where one user sends a message, and the same 5 others happen to receive one at the exact same time, every time). Does #deltachat have that?
Am I missing something here? 
La idea de pasarse a XMPP ya como que me remata, porque todo el trabajo de pasar a tu entorno recae en el que lidera la propuesta y para eso hay que tener entusiasmo y fuerza.
Tuve una época en la que estuve usando #deltachat con el correo electrónico y si hay que hacer esfuerzos en promocionar sistemas (en mi opinión) es en el correo electrónico. Mecanismo que empezamos a perder porque todo el mundo tiene uno, todo el mundo lo necesita, pero nadie quiere pelear por el suyo. Igual que con el fediverso.
@rohden Heh, you caught it :) Indeed bots running some LLM for audio transcription or image generation exist. But they are not part of the UI/UX of #deltachat itself, or of its #chatmail core Rust library. Bots and #webxdc apps are behind extension points where we intentionally don't control or even know what people use.
@sommelier @kuulman from the core teams there are no plans to go for ntfy any time soon. #deltachat on #FDroid doesn't use any push notifications and generally works fine in background, and is the best option privacy wise. See e.g. https://mastodon.social/@ati1/114578258005467162
If you haven't seen it, we detail the current state of privacy of google/apple push notifications here https://delta.chat/en/help#privacy-notifications
By design, end-to-end-encrypting #deltachat and #webxdc apps only need ephemeral transport. It's a big deal. Let's compare:
- #matrix home servers maintain a cryptographic forever-chain of cleartext social-graph metadata.
- #WhatsApp servers maintain cleartext metadata visible to Meta.
- #Signal keeps encrypted metadata, hosted at GAFAM
#chatmail relays do not persist any social graph state, also not in encrypted form. A key goal of our designs: chatmail operators can sleep well at night :)
@delta is there any advantage for me using a selfhosted chatmail relay instead of my selfhosted docker mailserver when using #deltachat ?
I just plan to use deltachat in a family context where everthing would happen on my own mail server.
@bjoern @chfkch @delta well it shows that the #deltachat core library can run inside of a home assistant add-on. the same core library is also used for writing bots.
So should be possible, but I don't know #HomeAssistant development enough to say for sure. Like can I expose actions from an add-on, that you can trigger from the home assistant UI, or would I need to extend home assistant itself for that?
Hat irgendjemand schon mal versucht #deltachat für Benachrichtigungen aus Smarthomesystemen wie Nodered, Homeassistant etc zu nutzen? Oder gibt es ggf einen CLI Client mit ner API die man aus solchen Systemen raus aufrufen kann. Dementsprechende Bist könnte Delta Chat zu einer coolen Alternative zu Telegram machen.
#smarthome #homeassistant #nodered @delta
The last two days saw the number of push notifications spike. Sometimes 80K Google Play push notifications happened per hour, while the baseline was more around 10-20K. These spikes probably indicate Internet availability. #deltachat is offline-first: you can write messages and attach media, create groups, use #webxdc apps, setup a second device etc. all without any Internet. Once it returns queued messages are sent out and cause push notifications. #OfflineFirst is crucial for resiliency.
Alt...
a graph showing "Direct push notifications for the last hour"
On the X axis it starts around May 24th 7:30pm and goes until May 26th 7:30pm.
On the X axis it goes from 0 to 80K notifications for the last hour.
There are two plot lines:
- Apple push notifications which are in the range of 7K and 15K notifications in every hour.
- Google Play notifications which is between 10k and 80k notifications per hour. There are around 5 spikes that go up to 70k or above 80k notifications in every hour.
Thank you for the clarification of the verification process and the link to the documentation explaining the process.
https://securejoin.readthedocs.io/en/latest/
#Federated #FediVerse #OpenSource #POSIX #Chat #Mail #Secure #encryption #programming #underlords #DeltaChat #email
@stubenhocker what on/off switches? it looks to me you are talking about a feature that is available in #ArcaneChat not #DeltaChat
This week in #FDroid (TWIF) is live:
* #DeltaChat community meet and Desktop version
* #SessionMessenger network switch
* Find a better FOSS #Telegram client, now!
* Xed-Editor evil clones
* #APatch broken
+ 8 new apps
+ 183 updates
Quick read at: https://f-droid.org/2025/05/22/twif.html
#deltachat Desktop can now run on #Firefox and Safari, entirely avoiding #Electron and Chromium! It's an intended side-effect of the "porting Desktop to #Tauri" effort led by @treefit which aims to provide a non-Electron packaged version of the Desktop. Here is a video and deep dive into what's working on regular browsers now, and what's missing for a full Web version: https://delta.chat/en/2025-05-22-browser-edition
For those wondering about Microsoft Recall because of #Signal's blog post about an option to block screenshots on Windows: #deltachat Desktop on Windows and MacOS have an option to disable screenshots in "Advanced" settings since beginning 2025. It's not enabled by default because we first need to work hard on drafting a big blog post about it .... just kidding :) We'll see if we change the default. We certainly agree that Microsoft needs to change their AI-grabbing and privacy violations.
Don't forget there is now an Australian chatmail relay/server up and running folks.
Help spread the load and increase Delta's geographic foot print.
You know it make sense...
@farooqkz @delta #deltachat does not even have encrypted data. only providers may have encrypted data. in case of #chatmail they are ephemeral by default, however. also, there is no group state or things like that
Transparency report: #deltachat gave out data for the following number of users in the last years: 0, nada, zilch.
granted, it helps to not have data to begin with :)
#Telegram is the exact opposite: they have _all_ the data about users, message histories, contacts, group and channel memberships, phone numbers, media files, bot interactions etc .... all in the clear on their central server, ready to be grabbed.
https://www.404media.co/telegram-gave-authorities-data-on-more-than-20-000-users/
@pixelschubsi @adbenitez we use #chatmail to indicate a minimal mode to operate an e-mail server, namely as an ephemeral store-and-forward relay. On top of chatmail relays, #deltachat provides *always* end-to-end encrypted messaging and minimizes metadata visible to the relay.
Relays forget messages after download, or if a second device is added, after some set number of days. This ephemeral e2ee-only mode is indicated by "chatmail" see also the intro of https://delta.chat/en/2025-03-26-edit-and-delete-how .
@Daojoan meet #deltachat basically displaying email inboxes with a chat UI, and encrypting email without you even needing to know what encryption is
@aperalesf Yo me desprendí de él hace un tiempo y, en algunos aspectos de mi vida, he de reconocer que es un inconveniente; desde luego no así en el plano laboral, donde agradezco no recibir mensajes en mi teléfono, sobre todo disponiendo de correo corporativo para ello. Pero en el plano "ocio" es más complicado, sobre todo a la hora de organizar cosillas entre varias personas y que, ni las llamadas telefónicas por poco prácticas, ni otras vías de comunicación sugeridas por mí (email, #xmpp, #deltachat...) por no cuajar en los demás, se me hace más cuesta arriba. Pero bueno, por ahora, resistiendo.
@cehteh #DOOM was one of the reasons the #webxdc size limit was increased in #DeltaChat, it was already ported back on 2023! read:
https://support.delta.chat/t/proposal-remove-bump-xdc-file-size-cap/2828
if you search for "doom" you will find the download link, you need to rename the extension .zip to .xdc
fun fact: it was also ported by the same person that ported #Quake!!!
@delta @n0iroh
This week in #FDroid (TWIF) is live:
* #Nextcloud store shenanigans
* #Cheogram in Space-s
* #DeltaChat and #ArcaneChat fork
* #FluffyChat feature full
* #Tachiyomi successor #Kahon
* #Inure #reproducible
* #PasswordStore fork
* #ReplicantOS and #NGI
* #NewPipe out of the 360p jail
+ 12 new apps
+ 195 updates
Go beyond clouds in https://f-droid.org/2025/05/15/twif.html
Russian authorities continue to demand the impossible, namely that we give them user data we don't have. Today the Moscow City Court rejected our objections and sided with the communication surveillance authority Roskomnadzor and the Federal Security Buereau (FSB). Not too surprising. Many more details and next step considerations you can find in this press release
Finally took the time to try out Delta Chat. (https://delta.chat/en/)
WOW. So smooth. Onboarding in 5 seconds and a small simple tools for organizing.
This is what i been dreaming of as a community organizer.
Yesterday i onboarded 20 people, half of them 70 years +. And everyone agreed: normally im critically of new tech, but this is amazing, surprisingly intuitive, and it just works.
Thank you so much @delta and all the developers making the small handy apps.
Alt...
Screenshot of the main interface of Delta Chat.
Showing; profiles overview, chat overview and a chat thread.
@schnedan yeah one thing is the beauty of blah blah and another practical reality, most/all xmpp clients are no way close to the usability and user friendly level of WhatsApp and Telegram, heck, reactions started to be implemented in SOME xmpp clients "recently" and it is still half baked last time I tried, I am just answering your question about "why don't people just use xmpp?"
with #DeltaChat you get the same advantages of decentralization while the app is better, that is my opinion
@schnedan "xmpp works great" haha, yeah sure, people prefer #WhatsApp and #Telegram or even #DeltaChat because the apps are better (UI/UX-wise) while #xmpp doesn't have a concrete good brand/app that people can install and use and expect the same features everywhere (ex. iOS)
also it is easy to mess up and send unencrypted in XMPP, most groups are unencrypted because it is hard to get it working right in groups and multi-device
Heads up #Linux, #OpenBSD and #FLOSS #devs and enjoyers if you want to hang out with other like-minded folks here is a #DeltaChat group for you:
Alt...
the group avatar that is the classic linux penguin logo, below the group name "FLOSS" with the protected green checkmark that means the group is e2ee and safe against MITM attacks
One thing radically different in #deltachat compared to Whatsapp and Signal: pervasive, effortless multi-profile support. We understand many worry about how to find others to get in contact with. The dreaded messenger network-scaling problem!
But if you onboard as a *group* that's less of a worry. We aim to ease and further optimize group-onboarding btw. And sooner or later you'll enjoy multi profile. Creating a chat profile without being chained to a phone number. Freedom and resilience.
We increasingly hear about China travellers who use #deltachat successfully where Whatsapp and Signal fail to work. Recently a family onboarded including a 85 old mother, to prepare for China travel. Everbody succeeded, no troubles!
#deltachat is all about resiliency and "just works" user experiences. Despite ongoing and prospective network blocking attempts, our apps manage to mitigate and remain working everywhere. Meanwhile we are preparing some next level resiliency/security features ;)
@wauz @werawelt @ramichaelseidlitz es ist leider nicht erkennbar was das mit dem heutigen #deltachat zu tun hat. Alle, die auf #chatmail onboarden, können weder klartextnachrichten schicken noch empfangen. Deine argumente klingen so generisch dass sie auf praktisch jeden messenger zutreffen und auch auf das internet protocol (IP) selbst. Muss aber jetzt nicht ausdiskutiert werden.
@delta Now, I'm having second thoughts, and I wonder if having at least two accounts (one using a random chat mail for processional use and another with my regular email for personal use) could be a better approach. After all, It is extremely easy to have more than one account in delta and switch from one to another.
@delta I initially started using my regular email address and it just works great. Setting it up was no different from setting up #Thunderbird.
The rationale was that if someone has my email, they could contact me as usual, and I would be able to chat with them using #deltachat
@delta but there are at least two main items with the awhere I'm going to need advice about #deltachat
1. Is it a good idea to use your regular email address or is it better to use a dedicated email account like the chat mails from the onboarding process?
2. Is there any way to discover other people using #deltachat if you don't know their email address if they have not shared the QR with you? (I can see pros and cons for both)
@delta I can see how #deltachat could be equally useful to family members from different ages, activists, journalists...
I've been using @delta for some months and I'm totally in love with it.
The concept of using emails as chats is equally simple and powerful.
And I love the fact that it just works as we are used to in other #IM apps, but without being locked to a platform, and having true encryption.
The onboarding process is extremely easy to do, and does not require personal data at all.
IMHO it is equally useful for non-experts and people who really need a secure and trusftul IM service.
@ramichaelseidlitz
Ich auch.
Wer mal #deltachat ausprobiert hat, merkt schnell, wie sicher die Kommunikation sein kann und wieviele erstaunliche Möglichkeiten es gibt auf Grundlage des Emailprotokolls.
Es gibt schon lange die Möglichkeit zu authentifizierter und verschlüsselter Kommunikation via Email, ist den Leuten aber zu umständlich. Deshalb ist sowas wie Delta-Chat m.E. eine Quelle für Inspiration zur Entwicklung von ähnlich vorkonfigurierten Diensten.
@delta @wauz
@cy if you want to do so, you can! and you will be able to communicate from your sassy PGP+email setup with non-tech people that on the other hand just want a messenger on the style of #WhatsApp and not to fiddle with PGP keys and configuring a classic email client to properly encrypt messages and read chats in an INBOX instead of a chat conversation.
#DeltaChat is basically making #e2e encrypted #email accessible to the masses without they even needing to know what encryption or PGP is
Last week four new #chatmail relays popped up from four different continents from four different entities.
Permission-free interoperability based on #cryptography ... That's how we like it and how it generally is with the email system: separation of transport and apps. App developers can't access messages, and relay operators can not break e2ee encryption. Fwiw May 14th there is another round at a #Moscow court where our lawyers will convey this impossibility for #deltachat to hand over data.
Alt...
Screenshot of a part of the list shown at https://chatmail.at/relays
With chtml.ca (Canada), chatmail.au (Australia)
E2ee.wang (Johannesburg, south Africa) and
Chat.privvitytech.com (Bangalore, India)
@pvagner not the least because @WofWca @treefit @r10s and @adbenitez care for #deltachat #a11y for some years now 💗
@scott @peter if you need any advise or support let us know :) We particular recommend onboarding with a pre-existing group because then the biggest roadblock, "who can I chat with", is mitigated. Many families, little orgs and ad-hoc groups like attendees in a conference talk, successfully started using #deltachat this way and particularly appreciated #webxdc apps that provide an in-chat interactive experience.
1 cent per five years .... is the current marginal hosting cost for a #chatmail address, with which #deltachat apps facilitate world-wide private messaging including interactive #webxdc apps that run end-to-end encrypted in any chat group.
<1 Million EUR per year is the estimated marginal hosting costs for 350 Million EU citizens. Such scaling requires, however, research and development, including careful UX and #cryptography work. Related writing from @gordon
https://newsletter.squishy.computer/p/cryptography-scales-trust
Alt...
screenshot of key excerpt from the referenced post:
"When the network is built on cryptographic protocols, we don’t have to trust anything in-between. We don’t have to trust the computers, the wires, the institutions, beliefs, or kinship of the network participants. We can trust the math. All we have to do is verify the message with cryptography.
This is a powerful primitive for scaling trust, because it means everyone on the network can cooperate together, even if they don’t trust each-other. The costs to producing high-trust results are greatly reduced, and we can spend our coordination efforts on building larger, more fine-grained, more complex networks of cooperation."
Yesterday, 20 people from the https://safesisters.org community onboarded with #DeltaChat in Lusaka, Zambia. Everything worked! Usability, privacy and #OfflineFirst ops were appreciated and #webxdc app based organizing met strong interest. Many participants engage in addressing challenges from surveillance state actors, family and partner abuse. Moreover, people with visual impairment were happy about Android's screen reader support.
It's events like this that validate our efforts!
Alt...
Photo of a group of black women gathering in a conference room in Lusaka, Zambia. There is a group of people standing in the back, as well as several sitting in front of tables, as well as and on the side. The picture was shot while onboarding with Delta Chat Android took place, and people in the picture consented to publishing.
Today I learnt: if you configure #DeltaChat to delete messages from server at once after download, you won't be able to send messages to "Saved Messages".
Honestly, it looks like a bug to me, as by definition "Saved Message" are supposed to be for saving them... Would you file a ticket for that ?
We have several ground breaking developments going on in the background, and frankly, it's sometimes hard to not pre-announce them excitedly :)
However, we struggle to acquire public funding after the OTF contract broke away in February. Current need is around ~50K per month for ~10 people. , and we would like to support some contributors to switch their day job.
Fallback: even if funding dries up, #deltachat is bound to continue to work. It's pretty maintainable and intrinsically motivated.
@nanianmichaels for the record, one of the Delta Chat developers is aware of #HomeAssistant and toyed around creating an integration to use DC via web with it:
https://fosstodon.org/@treefit/114116842443275853
maybe creating such a #DeltaChat bot integration would be possible, not sure if @treefit would be interested or have time but otherwise someone else could do it, so maybe the option No. 1 is also possible
@M0YNG I don't know #HomeAssistant but if it is some service you run in some server, you can create a #DeltaChat bot that runs in that server and sends you #e2ee email notifications
Alternatively, you can configure Delta Chat with a classic email account and receive normal/unencrypted #email so you could just sent you an email notification from #HomeAssistant if it already support it
#deltachat ist a community messenger much more than a monetary focused enterprise. Its offspring developments, the growing #chatmail and #webxdc efforts are also community grounded.
Is there any other cross-platform FOSS messaging project, implementing #RightToExit on many levels, putting all interesting and sensitive computation and interactions into end users devices, constantly and radically denying centrality/control of billionaires and big-tech, to the extent currently possible?
@ufm fun fact: there was an app that allowed to use #yggdrasil for #p2p messaging in #DeltaChat: https://github.com/deltachat/AndroidYggmail/
but yggmail has all the problems of p2p apps so just setting up a #chatmail server inside yggdrasil network is probably more interesting
Some of you may remember posts where we talk about #deltachat being hardened to work under bad and adverserial network conditions where other messengers fail. Examples were Georgia, Russia and Iran at the time. But hardened network handling can be useful also during non-political turmoil like currently in Spain where there are some reports that DC messages get through where WhatsApp failed .... https://sonomu.club/@icaria36/114417052677227592
In any case, wishing all the people in Spain and Portugal quick recovery!
@icaria36 yes, currently if your chatmail or email servers fails you wouldn't be able to get messages.
The reason why #deltachat might work better is because it has been optimized to work in bad networks where states are intentionally trying to disrupt communications. Maybe the power outage in spain causes more random network behaviour (eg DNS failures) which delta is pretty prepared to deal with. In any case thanks for the notice and all the best with restoring power!
Still... I guess even #DeltaChat communications would fail me if the data center of my ChatMail server would be affected by a power cut, right? Or is there some kind of redundancy?
No idea how accidental this #blackout is, but it's a good chance to think how to make your mobile phone still useful when a bunch of servers (including your default ones) go off.
There is an ongoing massive electricity power #blackout in Spain and Portugal. Some of my friends are reporting that not even WhatsApp is reliable, working for some contacts and not for others. I'm still trying to understand how this is possible, and maybe it has to do with the recipients'nearest telecommunications more than the WA servers.
Anyway, fun fact, the friends who reached out did it via #DeltaChat
Still... (next)
@trendless I feel like #DeltaChat is gaining momentum 🤩
@beaufils if you have any questions about #chatmail relays or #deltachat apps let us know :)
Please help us get rough stats as we don't have technical means to collect such stats, by design.
Do you use #deltachat or are considering it? Which kind of operator do you use?
| any chatmail relay (includes default onboarding): | 162 |
| self hosted classic server: | 72 |
| 3rd party classic server: | 100 |
| don't use delta (yet): | 207 |
Closed
23 is the number of currently active #chatmail relays we heart about by now. Only 6 are listed at https://chatmail.at/relays to complicate ongoing state-level blocking attempts. Please keep setting up #chatmail relays -- and thanks to all the early adopters and carers!
July 2025 some key contributors will do sessions in #Lille, France at @passthesaltcon
and discuss the state of efforts to scale #deltachat #chatmail and #webxdc to billions of people and bots, without any central points of control.
"if your social media network can go down it is not decentralized" they say and rightfully so. Same is true for much other infrastructure ... Energy, water, internet utilities ... And of course messaging. If your messenger can go down it's not decentralized. During 2025 we aim to make #deltachat and #chatmail infrastructure in particular into the most resilient and mass-user accessible private messenging utility out there ... If it isn't already :)
@bitsoffreedom Signal is no proper alternative to WhatsApp if you want to be independent of US, and have digital sovereignty, take a look at #DeltaChat https://delta.chat
@yawnbox @Xeniax @zelf the other reason for not formalizing procedures completely is that the requisite parts are still evolving. #deltachat #chatmail and #webxdc efforts each have their own dynamics, and the particular dynamics have particular sub dznamics and all the borders are constantly shifting, renegotiated.
Sorry if this makes getting an overview from the outside harder. We do try to constantly publish about our considerations and all coding work happens in public.
Organizational note: It might appear that #deltachat #chatmail and #webxdc contributors are easily "on the same page". In fact, there are many ongoing controversial discussions in backrooms and public spaces. We are dealing with tons of user perspectives and feedback, researcher and developer stances, many UX/UI considerations, complex implementation and platform adaptation. We are internally allowing contradictions and complexity ... See also Ashby's requisite variety https://edgeofpossible.com/ashbys-law-variety-organisational-change/
@3jackdaws xmpp y delta.chat mejor
Precisamente un vídeo sobre las últimas mejoras
https://fediverse.tv/w/21b54e75-f8ae-4a61-919c-a7d264f67b57
Mucho mejor que Signal
Today we are unveiling two brand new features by ... drum-roll ... doing nothing:
- No "AI" integration involved or planned. Consequently, you don't need to teach your relatives how to disable AI!
- No proprietary server components: servers are fast, efficient and freely replicable, no permissions needed!
Moreover, our apps are easier to use and onboard with than SIM/phone number based apps: Multi-device and Multi-profile handling is a piece of cake.
@mondstern @meshtastic wow - #deltachat in acryl 👌
@risturiz I think email servers already support some sort of multi-server setup for the same domain, but #DeltaChat will be adding "multi-transport" support to the app which basically means a single profile can have several email accounts associated at the same time so if one fails others will still work, this has the advantage that you can even use servers with different domains and providers at the same time so if one goes down or blocked others will still work
@kuketzblog what are the "Delta Chat missionaries" saying? 🤔 I am one of the #DeltaChat developers and I don't think any of us claim Delta Chat is some "state of the art" perfect or "the best", "the fastest" etc as other messengers boldly do.
The selection of parameters of comparison in your messenger table is also subject to what you think is important, it is hard to be neutral, also it seems the "metadata protection" field is not completely correct for Delta Chat:
Jeder Messenger hat seine Fans – aber manche Communitys sind echt anstrengend. Die größten Missionare findet man mit Abstand bei Threema, dicht gefolgt von Delta Chat. Kritik? Undenkbar. Da wird sofort erklärt, warum du das Problem bist.
Aber hey, sollen sie ruhig über mich herziehen – die kostenlose Werbung nehm ich doch gern mit. Wenn sie sich schon aufopfern, um meinen Namen in ihren Filterblasen zu verbreiten, will ich da nicht im Weg stehen. 😁
Now using #DeltaChat with my own mail server.
Nice thing (on desktop) is that DeltaChat could also serve as a
Mail User Agent, too bad they are removing this part :)
The trajectory of E2E-encryption is about de-platforming: There shall be no central machines that can control the edges/peers, and the social groups and virtual centers they freely form.
Our #deltachat R&D around #chatmail relays and #webxdc apps all aim to realize such a "zero-platforms" fully E2E-encrypted interaction model. However, this is *not* just about cryptographic cleverness. Rather it is about usable anti-authoritarian designs, as explicitly stated in January https://delta.chat/en/2025-01-23-webxdc-no-billionaires
@krafter Delta Chat is available for iOS, if you mean in general to install a new app well yeah if people don't want to change there is nothing you can do about it, but if you are not available in the platforms they use they will need to use something else
on the plus side with #DeltaChat there are in-chat mini-apps you could use as a reason for them to install the app, ex. shopping lists with family or roomates, split bills with friends, to-do lists and collaborative editor, games, etc.
@krafter I recommend you to give it a try to #DeltaChat, for android there is a nice client called #ArcaneChat I maintain:
Easter/April offer 🐣 if you are onboarding a small group of family/friends to #deltachat and/or want to setup a insta-federated #chatmail relay let us know about any issues. Just post on fediverse and tag us. In case of bugs/issues we'll see to privately set up a support chat to help sort out any issues, or file accordingly to our development tracker. We want Delta to work flawlessly for private chatting and to better understand any remaining irritations or problems. Thanks and enjoy :)
Isn't it ironic that a messenger that utilizes email protocols under the hood is pretty resistant to spam? For decades most people equated email with "spam" and yet, here we are. It's not the email protocols that cause spam but the fact that email adresses have been used as identity. #deltachat is moving away from this email address-as-identity model towards a cryptography based model where only chat contacts know your identity, and email is "just" the globally federated transport.
Moribundo InsurgenteIf you are using #deltachat with a #chatmail profile with private contacts there is no chance you are going to get spam. Why?
1) Spammers can't contact you based on your phone number like with other messengers.
2) Nobody knows your private address or cryptographic key except your contacts. Without that spammers/phishers can't contact you.
3) if joining a public group with unknown members better use a second chat profile which you can mute/remove as needed.
Privacy and peace of mind.
One week ago we migrated 21 people from Matrix to @delta and it has been a pretty good experience.
Not everything is working flawlessly but that also wasn’t expect. Plus we didn’t do a lot of debugging so I cannot rule out user error yet.
All 21 users are happy about the change. #deltachat
https://www.screamingatmyscreen.com/one-week-with-delta-chat/
#deltachat is geared and optimized for private messaging even though it's successfully used for 100+ people chats as well. Doing large scale chats has two challenges:
- implementing scalable encryption so increased number of recipients does not increase message size/cpu cost for the sender
- grow good moderation tooling because public channels/chats invite a lot of spam, unwanted stuff
For large chats today we recommend to control who joins, and maybe use a separate chat profile.
@mray I just discovered the “Add Second Device” feature of #DeltaChat. Is highly underrated
#DeltaChat is so much better than Signal when it comes to hardware support. Get this: when setting up a new phone I lose access to previous conversations and media DESPITE having a synced desktop app. Why?
Well in Signal your desktop client is not a real client! Switching hardware with #DeltaChat was quick, easy and successful. Every client is real.👍
Signal:😖
I do wonder why they fail so hard there, as they generally have things figured out, too.
#openpgp traditions and #signal both bind a cleartext identifier, phone number or email address, to a cryptographic key. It opens up attack vectors as the servers/orgs controlling this binding can interfere.
#deltachat avoids such cleartext identity bindings by creating random #chatmail addresses, as transport only. The cryptographic key becomes the identifier and we want it hidden from the transport layer. Only people being in end-to-end encrypted chat need to identify each other, after all.
@AAMfP @goose @dammn yes, our whole project is about proving in reality (meaning: working code) that email protocols can be streamlined for instant messaging. #chatmail relays provide low latency always end to end encrypted interoperable messaging. The family of #deltachat apps work with the permission free chatmail relay server network but also with run-of-the-mill email servers. Just make sure to use a dedicated chat address and don't mix classic and chat email on the same address.
@sebiturbo I recommend you #DeltaChat and if you are using android there is this nice client I maintain: https://arcanechat.me
@werawelt kleiner typo: der fediverse account von #deltachat ist @delta
@sebiturbo Ich empfehle #deltachat. Da hat man ruckzuck einen anonymen, auf dem Gerät verschlüsselten Account und kann loschatten. Es basiert auf Emailprotokoll mit gutem Messenger-Layout. Kalender, Videochat etc alles dabei.
Software und Server sind in Deutschland.
Wer will, kann auch die eigene Emailaddi nehmen.
Sie sind auch im Fediverse/Mastodon: @deltachat.
The tech oligarchs, embodying and collaborating with authoritarians, are the horror artefact of the immense power that lies in configuring and operating our digital infrastructure we live and love on. Cryptography may mitigate toxic infrastructure but eventually we need to find and arrange more convivial ways for going about our lifes. #deltachat and #chatmail are small contributions to people-sovereign convivial infrastructure. DM us if you need support setting up a new chatmail relay :)